DUSHARIN: So where should I start from? Since the expedition we start is quite unusual, I think it makes sense if we first get acquainted even though most of us know each other. Not to make it too complicated we could do it the following way: every one would introduce himself in brief and I would add comments if necessary.

So as not to confuse you, I'll start with myself. I'm Ivan Trofimovich Dusharin from Togliatti. I'm the head of the design bureau at the Volga Automobile Plant (VAZ). I've been climbing mountains for 32 years. My mountaineering experience includes Everest (1992). It so happened that I had to take the role of the leader of the expedition, that's why I'm sitting here right now. Andrei Volkov is the deputy leader of the expedition. He'll tell you about himself.

VOLKOV: I'm 36. I am the Dean of the Finance and Management at the International Academy of Business and Banking. In 1992 I summitted Everest together with Ivan.

DUSHARIN: I don't specify the sports status. Those who were at Everest are all msmk (master of sports, international class). Andrei has the same status. I'll continue with the list. Andrei Mariev.

MARIEV: I'm from Togliatti. I work at VAZ. My experience in climbing is 20 years.

DUSHARIN: Dosaev Sasha.

DOSAEV: Togliatti. I have some climbing experience.

DUSHARIN: Khan-Tengri climbing experience. Benkin Igor.

BENKIN: I work…

DUSHARIN: Ask questions if you have any. Melnikov Vadim.

MELNIKOV: Togliatti …

DUSHARIN: Lenin Peak climbing experience. Various experience. Some people summitted more then thirty 7000's and 8000's meter peaks, some others have less experience. Temirbaev Renat.

TEMIRBAEV: … I work …

DUSHARIN: The candidate of sports without high-altitude climbing experience. Vladimir Vsevolodovich Shuvalov. He's that man with the camera, shooting us.

SHUVALOV: I work at VAZ in Togliatti. I've been working with climbers since 1987.

DUSHARIN: Alexander Nesterov.

NESTEROV: I'm 39… don't have … mountain tourist, rafting and kayaking…

DUSHARIN: Lubov Vladimirovna Shvedova.

SHVEDOVA: …

DUSHARIN: Victor Kolesnichenko.

KOLESNICHENKO: … I work …

DUSHARIN: … Sokolov.

SOKOLOV: …

DUSHARIN: … Valery.

?: …

DUSHARIN: Volodya Jirakovskiy.

JIRAKOVSKIY: …

DUSHARIN: Oleg Meshkov.

MESHKOV: …

DUSHARIN: Misha Ishutin.

ISHUTIN: I'm 39. I work …

To make everything understandable, let's do the following. I will not read, but retell you the existing order for “Lada-Everest” company that organizes the expedition. I'm authorized to be a representative of the organizing committee of the expedition, the leader and the head coach, if necessary. The deputy leader is Andrei Volkov. The doctor of the expedition is Lubov Vladimirovna Shvedova. Volodya Shuvalov is a camera man, photographer, and he is responsible for advertisement. The cook of the expedition is Alexander Nesterov, and I ask you to respect him. The others are the members of a sporting team, the ones who are to complete the program of the expedition.

Now about the work that was done. First, the expedition wouldn't become a reality without having solved the financial problems. It's the basis. VAZ gave this money, that's why we have some responsibilities towards the plant. We'll talk about that later. Concerning other points of organizing we had negotiations with the Chinese side (Volodya Komissarov took part in the negotiations). We had to communicate a lot with the guys from Novosibirsk, who were the organizers at the beginning. Those were Volodya Udin and Seryozha Sokolov. That group determined the trend of preparations.

The rest depended upon the guys from Togliatti. To our regret, we were not able to follow the schedule, e.g. we were planning to start the expedition on the 20th - 30th of May, but financial problems were hampering us. That's why we are still here.

The problems with the equipment had been solved with the help of the guys from Novosibirsk and Togliatti. I'm talking about the equipment for the whole team. The food problems had been solved mainly in Togliatti. The job had been done. We'll see the results later. It's difficult to predict them now.

At the other part I'd like to tell you how we plan to work further, why we have such thoughts, what is the reason for that and so on. It's sort of a structure of our further actions.

AvtoVAZ, the general sponsor of the expedition, and “Lada-Everest”, the organizer, had signed the agreement to complete a certain job on sports program and advertisement. So, we have obligations towards the plant, and it is said so in the document. Being the representative of “Lada-Everest” I signed the agreement and now I took this position which is not very pleasant for me. There are obligations towards the plant, so there would be your obligations towards “Lada-Everest”.

That's why we have an unusual suggestion that can define the relationships between us. It's understood that all of us are climbers, and we love mountains, we all are friends, but it comes to be only one side of the situation. The other side is the legitimacy. We had already had such experience being at Everest. We tried to build our relationships making agreements. That's why we prepared a kind of a contract and we want you to look at it. It's another question whether you accept it or not, but even though we are friends we have to have formal relationships. You have to understand that there is nothing strange about that. We'll talk all the conditions over with each one personally, so that we come to the point of understanding.

In spite of the fact that some people shared the financial expenses, offered their work and equipment, no one covered all their expenses. From this standpoint we are equal. To understand all this things correctly, that shouldn't be emphasized, because the expedition is not the easy one and the situation is serious, complicated. That's why the starting conditions are the same for everyone. No one has the right to contradict or ask for better conditions. Actually I have more rights than anyone to ask for better conditions, but I'm not going to. We are here for the same purpose. We have to make everything safe and to stay healthy and strong. We should preserve our friendly relations and, if we are lucky, if there are good weather conditions, we should make an ascent. The main task is to stay human and to come back home.

We are not planning anyone personally to make an ascent. The situation will show this, and we'll plan then.

That's why we defined the principle of 'one leader' in the contract. If there is one leader it turns out to be like in the army where there is submission and everyone works to complete the common task. I think we shouldn't discuss it endlessly. Those who don't agree may return home while it's not too late.

There were some more difficulties I want to talk about. What difficulties? I have already mentioned that I don't like my role now, the role of the leader. I'm a sportsman inside. That's why I'd like to try working on the route and making an ascent. That is the point that makes it hard to manage the situation. I hope to get help and understanding from you, because the leader shouldn't be sitting in the camp pointing out what to do and making decisions. You are to make decisions yourselves, and those who are more experienced will be managing things. You have to be mature about your decisions. All of you are adults and understanding what you are heading for.

That's why there is a suggestion: to form groups in order for you to start getting to know each other. It would also help us to create a sort of relationships on our way further. It doesn't necessarily mean that it will be the same till the end of the expedition. Some things may change, but for the beginning it should be organized this way. Maybe some people don't like the idea, but they have to understand the situation and to start working this way.

We are not the theoretical thinkers and never conducted psychological tests among you, so we followed the practical sense. We suggest you to form the following quartets. Andrei Volkov, Ilya Sabelnikov, Victor Kolesnichenko and I are the first group. Sergei Penzov (the leader), Mikhail Ishutin, Renat Temirbaev, Igor Benkin are the other group. Dosaev Sasha (the leader), Mariev Andrei, Klimenko Vitaly and Melnikov Vadim are the 3rd group (the youngsters). Even thought there are some doubts (people are young and inexperienced), we suppose that such a group will be able to work. Youngsters should work themselves to get more experience. We were planning the fourth group to be formed from the guys from Novosibirsk. One guy dropped away and we suggest Volodya Udin as a leader of the group, Volodya Jirakovskiy, Oleg Meshkov and Sergei Sokolov.

Do you have any objections at this point?

DUSHARIN: Just to make it easy to work from the standpoint of the management. Lubov Shvedova is a doctor. Sasha Nesterov is a cook. Volodya Shuvalov is an operator. Udin, Penzov, Dosaev, Volkov are responsible for the sporting part. Those people are able to make decisions and are able to manage 2 or 3 people.

To be honest, it is not easy for me. I'm democratic and soft inside and at the same time I have to make orders. Maybe this is not right, but it's necessary. We'll see what happens next.

There some more things I want to emphasize. We are the same family, we are the same group and we have to be even better than we are now. Everything might happen in the family, and we should minimize the risk. We are all different, we have different habits, but we have the same goal and the task to complete. This should go first, and personal things should be a little behind.

I mean that Ilya Sabelnikov is not here. He is known as a very good climber, he was granted a talent from God, that's why he is here in the expedition, but he has some weak points also. Not only he, to be honest, but most of us. There should not be discussions or investigations about that. We'll have more time to rest, to relax, to drink something, but when we will deserve it and not right now. If it will hamper the expedition, such people will be canceled from the expedition.

I finished the second part. Andrei, do you have anything to add?

VOLKOV: I think, it's important to mention the formal part. We applied to participate in the All-Russia Championship. Is that the formal part?

DUSHARIN: Yes. That's why we applied for participation in the category of high-altitude ascents. I don't want to make a secret of that. The list of people is not final, we simply described the region of the ascent. We decided not to risk and didn't include people whose sporting status is lower than a candidate of sports. Once again, it is not once and for all - the final list is always to be handed after the ascent.

Officially the team captain is Andrei Volkov. I'm his substitute and a coach.

The next thing. What is our schedule? Today is the 25th, tomorrow is the 26th. We are planning to start going tomorrow. We'll cross the border on the 28th. We'll have another plan then. We will work it through thoroughly as soon as our groups start working at the base camp. Unfortunately not everyone knows the plan. The scheme that is usually used for such peaks as Everest and K2 is known to Penzov, to me, to Volkov, to Igor Benkin and to others who were at Everest. Some other people might not understand the whole thing, even though they have read about it and had some experience.

That's why we are going to consult you and ask you for advice. We'll start moving on the 28th and cross the border. On the July, the 1st we will be moving through China. On the 2nd the caravan will be formed and it will start going. In the situation that exists now we'll be able to reach the base camp a 3.900. We'll have to carry the luggage and to set the advanced base camp.

We still have some doubts about the caravan. The information that we have got from the Chinese said that river crossing in the period from the 1st till the 8th of July is the hardest one. So there could be some delays. We just have to cross our fingers for luck. There shouldn't be any panic, we'll try to do everything to complete the trekking.

We hope to start working at the base camp on the 8th, and to start fixing ropes from July, the 15th till August, the 1st. Here the differentiation of jobs could happen between groups. Some people might not agree with that. Of course, everyone would be aiming for the mountain, but for the sake of the expedition success some people may be working on the route setting camps and the rest will have to lift extra luggage in this camps. There is nothing shameful in it. The next stage will start from August, the 1st. We'll have to lift the luggage using fixed ropes. 70% of work will have to be done on the route and 30% of work will be to lift the luggage.

I hope we'll have a chance to attempt summiting starting from the 20th. It would be great if we have a success and start withdrawing the camp by the end of August. We are planning to get the caravan to go down here at the beginning of September. On the 10th or 12th we'll cross the Chinese border.

According to foreign literature and to people's descriptions of the ascents done, we have a very intense schedule. That's why we lean on your experience, work and attitude. You've got to work out here. There shouldn't be any relaxation. Further changes will depend upon different things: the glacier, weather conditions and so on.

Are there any questions? I can understand that everyone has certain problems with his primary job. As for me, I also have some. I've to start working at VAZ on September the 13th, but the worth business we are doing now gives us a chance and allows us to look at our work at home cities and other things from above...

QUESTION: ...

DUSHARIN: If the weather, time limits, and people's conditions allow us, we should make one more attempt.

QUESTION: ...

DUSHARIN: Yes. I consider it to be rational, but it shouldn't interrupt the thing.

QUESTION: …the first base… the first week… Nevertheless…

DUSHARIN: The situation will show itself, but I think that we still won't have enough resources to work up there. I mean we won't have the necessary equipment taken there yet. As soon as we have all the necessary equipment up there, the group will start ascending. It might be going on the whole week. Maybe one group will start working. All the team comes, setting up everything, and the group starts working. I think we'll try to do everything to speed up the process.

More questions?

SHVEDOVA: I want people to trust my doctor's skills, as I trust you. If something is wrong you just tell me, and don't hide anything. You shouldn't be treating yourselves. I have to know… During the Everest expedition… Please, I just want everyone to return back healthy.

DUSHARIN: Maybe not everyone knows the situation. While crossing the river we won't have any connection with the world down here. You've got to understand that and take Luba Shvedova's words into consideration.

Another thing is that we have oxygen, but only for medical purposes. We are planning on making an ascent without any oxygen. You have to understand what it means.

The third thing is that probably we'll have the connection inside the team, but it's not necessary to claim that and you also have to understand that. We couldn't get the needed permission to use the phone from the Chinese side because of the time limits. Your relatives have to understand the situation and shouldn't be worrying about you not calling them.

The passing between the base camp and the advanced base camp is long and complicated. You have to know about that. The altitude difference is 1 km and the length is 18 or 25 km. In 1983 there had been an Italian expedition out there. It took them the whole month to carry the luggage up. They wore out two pairs of tracking boots each. Actually they have 12 tons of luggage per 22 people. We have less, but your shoes and personal equipment have to be in good condition. Take care about those things while you have time.

VOLKOV: May I speak? The things I want to tell you are not so pleasant. There is a book in English that describes the expedition of 1987. There were a lot of fatal accidents there. It's the new album and a book of Kurt Diemberger dedicated to his three attempts to make an ascent. The expedition of 1984 is being described. The first problem is lifting the luggage. It's the hardest work. Western climbers didn't get used to that. They even took a group of mountain tourists with them, but they couldn't help, and the caravan took them back. The second moment is that it is possible to fix ropes everywhere, from the bottom till the top... But the overall background is quite unfavorable: much people perished on that mountain.

It is possible to fix the entire route. Usually we worry about the upper part of the route which starts from the 4th camp. As far as I know, nobody had completed the upper part of the Ridge… all did the traverse, go left and climb that snow… So… their first group of 2 had a success. The second group didn't want to risk and started setting the 5th camp. That is also very important for us. They started moving from the 4th camp having taken tents with them, spent the night at 8,300m and wanted to make an attempt, but they didn't succeed. They could barely descend. We had in mind to find out whether there is a possibility of setting the 5th camp at this altitude.

The first camp should be set in the crevasse, because there might be a danger of avalanches. We have to find a crevasse, and to dig a cave. It's safer in the cave and avalanches usually go through the first camp.

Komissarov has a small picture where it is shown that there isn't a way to get right on the ridge. The only way is to go by the steep slope (this one is not an easy one). Further there is the 2nd, the 3rd, the 4th camp… Actually everything is the same. You can find out the attitude difference (it's 4 km). Starting from 4,800 up to 8,600.

DUSHARIN: It is approximately 5,600…6,500.

VOLKOV: The last camp turns out to be at 8,000m. Kurt wrote that he didn't reach it (he was in group with an operator). They didn't reach 8,000m and set the camp lower. So they moved between the 3rd and the 4th camp in two stages. Everything depends upon the physical condition and the luggage that people have to carry.

Someone from the Japanese expedition got unfastened from the ropes and fell to the left.. As far as I understand that was a critical moment. Everyone remembers Pobeda Peak: you simply walk all the time but it's always possible to... We've got almost the same situation here. By my own judging the profile is rather steep (45-55 degrees). The slope gets almost 60 degrees at 8,000. It is very steep section about 100 meters high at 8,000 and it's hard to ascend there even using ropes. I don't like the idea of going to that slope from the left side, because there is three kilometer's precipice there. Actually there is a 45 degrees slope. You understand that if you stumble or have some problems with your crampons, then you will simply fall down. Everybody starts a traverse moving towards the summit under the hanging glacier from the left.

What else attracted my attention? If the work of the expedition is stable, than it gets safer to make an ascent from the North. The percentage of successful ascents from the North is higher. The number of successful ascents is higher from the South only because there were more attempts. In 1987 there were 7 expeditions at the same time. On Everest we had 8. It looked like Broadway. When the weather changed to stormy 11 people died at once. If we do everything all right, it will be quite safe to work at that mountain.

The Italian expedition had some problems with crossing rivers. Seven barrels had been swept away. There were also some people with camels washed away. There wasn't a way to help those. It's very strange for me. Having known the situation, three times by telephone and fax I asked the Chinese side for more information about this year's situation. They didn't have any information. They only said that there were three trekking groups at the moment and if we meet them we can get the information from them.

DUSHARIN: It's a kind of a year when there is no active glacier melting in the mountains. They call it the “dry years”. One of the photos shows us a camel walking in the water. It reaches its belly, but sometimes it can fall in a hole. Even small water can cause problems.

VOLKOV: That's all I know. Not much. I looked through the album, and read some books. From all the statistics I've read, I found out that there was only one successful ascent from the North in August. Other expeditions go at the end of May, in the middle of June, and in the middle of July. There isn't any logic in that. We've got the same on the Communism Peak.

COMMENT: Maybe, it's similar to Everest…

VOLKOV: No, it can't be similar to Everest, because it was bad weather there. The weather was storming all the time except for 5 or 6 good days to attempt and here we summitted. Then it was bad again. The weather here is more like ours: 2 good days and 3 bad days.

DUSHARIN: Sometimes there are storming periods up to 5 days. It gets really hard then.

VOLKOV: The Italians had to reset their camps, because the tents were torn down 2 or 3 times…

DUSHARIN: And one more thing. You shouldn't count on ropes. Up to the crest the ropes are everywhere, but there is a 90% chance that it is impossible to use them. The ropes get frozen or just unusable and not safe. The only way you can use the ropes is as a belay point.